Saturday, 24 November 2012
A solution to the endless 'dodgy five star review' problem!
This isn't another moan about not-very-good books having five stars and the reviews all being from their mates, incidentally.
I've had my say before on this one
http://terrytyler59.blogspot.co.uk/2012_09_01_archive.html
....so I won't repeat myself. I'd just like to say this - reviewers, please look at what the stars actually mean before you post a review. If you hover over the stars on Amazon and on Goodreads, they show you what they indicate.
Anyway, whatever happened to the 3 star review? That quiet little cheeky one twiddling its thumbs, minding its own business in an average kind of way, in between 'it was fab' and 'it was crap'? Don't see many of these little fellas, do you?
Let's hear it for the 3 star review! Let's hear it for, "it was very good in parts, but I skip-read some of it, it wasn't quite my thing, but someone who loves this particular genre might lap it up. If it was given a professional edit I might have given it four stars. It was okay, fine, something pleasant enough to read on the beach that afternoon."
There, that's okay, isn't it? It doesn't mean the author will hunt you down and set fire to your house, or unfollow you on Twitter, does it?
Now, the solution!
I think this would be for Amazon to introduce more stars. I finished a book last night. I read every word, read it quickly, found it fascinating, but can't quite give it five stars, because that would put it up there with my favourite books, wouldn't it? Wish I could give it four and a half. So, how about a seven star scale? Wouldn't that be great? Wouldn't it be good if you could give six stars on the seven star scale - equivalent to the four and a half star review? Because that is what I think some five star reviews often are. I would give four and a half stars to the book I finished last night. So I'll give it five. Because it was better than a book to which I would have given four.
Amazon's new scale should be:
7 - Amazing, loved it, didn't want it to end, right up there with my favourites
6 - Seriously good stuff, will recommend, but not quite up there with my favourites
5 - Good, I enjoyed it.
4 - Good, a few dodgy bits, but on the whole it was pretty fair.
3 - Skip read it a bit. Not too bad if you like that sort of thing
2 - Boring, not very well written, hardly managed to struggle through to the end
1 - Badly written shite, gave up without finishing.
There! Wouldn't that be better?
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Excellent idea! I'm pretty stingy with my five stars, but not many people seem to be :-S I really wish there was a bit more diversity in the reviews my own work has recieved. But what can you do? You can't tell people what to write!
ReplyDeleteI know! It's frustrating for both reviewers and authors. I, too, try to be stingy with five star reviews - but often my five star ones are actually four and half, which is where much of the real problem lies, I think.
ReplyDeleteAlso, a four star review can range from "I'm being generous here!" to "it's nearly a five star", can't it?
I just try to be consistent in my own reviewing. If it's on the cusp, then I'll explain that in the review. I did a review recently where I said that it started out at five stars, then dropped to one in the second half - and so averaged out at two (Not three. It lost one star for the disappointment factor!)
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ReplyDeleteYou know my views on this subject Terry, I honestly don't believe there can be a review system for self-published books. It has been completely corrupted, and there is now no way back.
ReplyDeleteMy interview with Shakespeare is still scheduled for tonight.
The problem is whether or not you think people are 'qualified' to give reviews in the first place. Some say that everyone's viewpoint is equal, others that those who wouldn't know a split infinitive if it farted in their face shouldn't review books. I am on the fence on this one.
ReplyDeleteWhen you speak to Bill, tell him I loved Measure For Measure, but Coriolanus bored me shitless.
He agrees with you about Coriolanus, he reckons he was drunk when he wrote it.
DeleteThat made me laugh a lot. Tell him it shows.
Deletewhat? You guys are crazy! Coriolanus is one of my favourites! (it probably helped that I saw a great production of it in Newcastle many years ago. I got a last minute ticket and sat on the corner of the front row - the actors were having a sword fight literally right over my head, and dropped great ropy strings of gore everywhere. It was fantastic :-D)
DeleteI agree that 5 star reviews from friends and family are biased. The truth is that all reviews are basically meaningless unless they are aggregated content from trusted media sources. "Indie" or self-published authors are just kidding themselves that there will ever be attention from anyone outside their closest circle of 150 people, and your mum will expect her's for free as well she should.
ReplyDeleteKate! Are you a writer? If so, I hope you soon get readers outside your closest circle of 150 people, as I have, and as have many others too!
ReplyDeleteI have many, many reviews from people whose identities I don't know, as have thousands of other 'indie' authors. I frequently get tweets from people previously unknown to me, to tell me how much they've enjoyed one of my books. Yes, okay, that makes me look as if it includes a silent "So there, and ner ner ner ner ner", but never mind!
I don't think all reviews are meaningless unless they're from trusted media sources - those can be biased, too. All a review should be is an expression to others about how much someone has or hasn't enjoyed a book. If the Amazon page of a book shows 40 people saying "I loved this book, I recommend it highly", how can that be meaningless? We're not necessarily talking great literary acclaim here, after all.
Incidentally, my mother has never read any of my books. Too many 'fucks', I think.
Wonderful, thoughtful post as always, Miss T. We had the same problem with evals in the Navy. Everyone was getting perfect "walks on water" four point ohs, so that it really began to lose its meaning. So the Navy, following your line of thinking, created the 5.0 eval system. Eventually, the same prob happened all over again. I still like your idea however... and wish Amazon would add half-star ratings, too. I always struggle with the "star" system. Don't use 'em at Honest Indie Book Reviews. I just say what I liked and what I thought could be improved.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Gary. It would be great, though, wouldn't it, if there was the 7 star scale?
ReplyDeleteI gave the book 5 stars in the end... I would have given it 6 on my new improved system!!
It's a tricky issue. I agree that a 6th star would be nice - rather like the new A* grade in A level. As a writer, I like GETTING 5 star reviews, but if checking a book on Amazon that I want to read, I tend to drift to the 4 star, and then read a few 3 stars. Also, I respect a 'long' review, not a 3 line gush, which is always suspect. Trouble is, however many stars you introduce, writers being the insecure bunnies they are will automatically kvetch if they don't get top billing and get upset if their work rates further down the scale. I've seen moans on FB from writers who got a 'bad' review and couldn't accept it. The more stars you introduce at the top, the bigger you make the 'bad' star area.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but only the insecure prima donna twats who can't accept that not everyone will love everything they do, and who cares about them anyway, ha ha ha!!!!! I don't think you quite understood what I meant about the wider star range - the point is not to make an even higher and more wonderful grade, but to give a bit of leeway between them all. In other words, add the half grades. So 6* becomes like 4 and a half, 4* like 3 and a half, etc.
DeleteTotally agree - failing that,Amazon should let us have half stars. I often write in my reviews. Would have given it 4.5 stars if I could have.
ReplyDeleteYes - that's a good idea, isn't it? Honestly, I'm fantasising about this 7 star scale; it would make reviewing so much easier!
ReplyDeleteI base my reviews and stars on the content of a book, how its written and whether i enjoyed it. i do agree that a larger star scale would be better though.
ReplyDeleteI also think that reviews should be limited to people with verified accounts then maybe those that write fake reviews and give stars when they shouldn't,won't be allowed to post reviews when they obviously haven't read the book they're reviewing or give stars that haven't been deserved.
Agree agree!!! So you'd have to show that you've actually bought or downloaded the book for free before you could review it at all.
DeleteI know everyone keeps moaning about people who give 5 star reviews to everything, but as Susan has said before, 5 stars means different things to different people, which is a fair comment. A while back I tweeted a new 5 star review and somebody replied, yes, but if you look at their other reviews, they give 4 or 5 stars to everything. My reply was that many people will not review a book unless they can give it a good one, so maybe the fact that they've reviewed my book means that they liked it. It is true that if you praise everything you praise nothing, but if you gave bad reviews to the books you thought weren't much good, instead of just abandoning it and moving on, you would end up pissing a lot of people off! ON the other hand, I'm always saying that if you put the goods out on display you must expect them to be criticised. It's and endless subject to which there is no answer, and so many different points of view, all of which are as valid as each others!
Thanks for commenting Judee, and your reviews are always great - you really think about them and tell the prospective reader so much about the book, which is what they're for, I think!
I like your idea. I'm reading one of yours at the moment: Nobody's Fault. I can't give it five stars, but I'd gladly give it 4 1/2. It's good, it involves the reader, tension is building and the only reason I put it down is because life carries on. I have no idea how some of the characters are going to link up, but I want to find out. That's a good book.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Francene - I'm always delighted to receive any reviews from 3* upwards, anyway!! I'd probably write Nobody's Fault a bit more succinctly if I wrote it again now - I wrote it a year ago. I'm so pleased that you are both reading and enjoying it. I am reading Still Rock Water - and enjoying it, too! Grrr at the horrible controlling husband! After all the support she gave him....! I am reading it alongside a couple of others as I often have about three on the go, but I will, of course, review when it's finished, although I am not sure when that will be as I'm furiously writing my 5th at the moment - I'm at that penultimate chapter bit where all the ends are coming together, and I can't stand leaving it! :) Thanks for commenting x
DeleteHaha Terry where will it all end you're just winding us up now. I'm now feeling guilty because i only gave your five stars when all the time you was secretly wishing it was seven. If Amazon change their ratings to seven stars i will have to go back re read the book and alter my rating and what if seven didnt do it justice and it was worth an eight im starting to sweat with all the worry of it.
ReplyDelete@positivejules
I know, this is the problem - they couldn't possibly alter the scale now because of all the reviews already written!!!!
ReplyDeleteHa! Here's another suggestion: get rid of the stars altogether. That would also get rid of the competition between authors: who's the best? And the fake reviews with five stars.
ReplyDeleteIt's not going to happen; Amazon won't change their system because we moan a bit. Guess the best we can do is not to give reviews too much attention and continue to write. Unless you (universal you) get negative review after negative review, and all are saying you can't write to safe your life, then it's probably better to start another hobby. :-)
Also, Stella, it cokulnd't change because it would mean altering all the reviews that are already there.
ReplyDeleteWriters who are in competition with each other are just pathetic, and probably useless, too, if they worry so much about how well everyone else is doing.
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